Autodesk has responded to the open letter: https://archinect.com/news/article/150209385/autodesk-responds-to-revit-criticism
... I see from the comments on the Autodesk response link that perhaps the community isn't fooled ...
@DADA_universe said:
Not sure it's too early to think about funding and sustainable frameworks for building all these things we've been talking about. Many open source projects fade away because the business logic is not developed concurrently with the core product offering. And it would make sense to seize the moment while there is discontent with industry standard tools to scale up and present FLOSS tools as viable alternatives. I don't see how that scaling would happen without having in place a funding framework that works to be honest.
Dropping this here should it be worthwhile to anyone. Needs a Danish Industrial partner. Deadline- end of October: https://innovationsfonden.dk/en/programmes/international-collaborations/itea-eureka-industrial-cluster-call-software-innovation
@DADA_universe I live here in Denmark and work in AEC, I'll start thinking about local partners. I'd forgotten about that fund. Big projects with big numbers, but maybe we can join forces with some existing industry innovation group in the AEC space in Denmark. Maybe BIM7AA or Dikon, I've sat in those groups.
I have some ideas in mind that help all, and we can work on them
So, it's up to you join or not
If there's a mutual interest let me set up some experimental projects that cause all benefit
@duncan said:
@DADA_universe I live here in Denmark and work in AEC, I'll start thinking about local partners. I'd forgotten about that fund. Big projects with big numbers, but maybe we can join forces with some existing industry innovation group in the AEC space in Denmark. Maybe BIM7AA or Dikon, I've sat in those groups.
Brilliant! This might work then. Please do investigate further.
@ReD_CoDE said:
I have some ideas in mind that help all, and we can work on them
So, it's up to you join or not
If there's a mutual interest let me set up some experimental projects that cause all benefit
Please do share.
The first step is: have a cross-platform UI (based on React):
https://github.com/EAzari/Modern-UI
So, I think for those who know Python, JavaScript and TypeScript are easy
After this, we can focus on IFC and automation and also glTF and WebGL for web-based solutions and OpenGL and other libraries for desktop solutions
@Moult even Google's ontology project is not good enough, however, it's your choice, you can still insist on average things
Sorry, it's still not very clear what you are proposing.
Cross platform UI that does what?
Focus on doing what with IFC?
Automating what?
Desktop solutions for what?
Before even proposing programming languages it needs to be clear at a granular level what exact problems you are tying to solve. And also why and how, else we'll only end up like revit!
Or maybe you should build a prototype first and then it would be easier to understand what you mean and engage with the idea properly.
If you want to build any solution on the web and even on the Desktop, you should have a well-structured UI
See this one from Autodesk guys, that used in many Forge projects:
https://github.com/leefsmp/Re-Flex
I don't explain anything, there're two possibilities:
Those who know me and know that I don't share and don't do anything without a goal
Those who don't know me and want I explain everything and I normally don't do that
@DADA_universe said:
Or maybe you should build a prototype first and then it would be easier to understand what you mean and engage with the idea properly.
@DADA_universe If you all want that, you contribute to building that, I won't build anything for you all without your contribution :)
A head's up that Autodesk has a more official response:
https://twitter.com/andrew_anagnost/status/1289246512216563712
https://adsknews.autodesk.com/views/reply-to-open-letter-on-revit
Anything has a start, a peak point, and an end, so there's a long time I constantly mention Revit is at the end of its life, however, Autodesk has to have some hard decisions, because has to work more on Revit and aggregate and package many separate solutions mainly developed by plug-in developer companies as Autodesk partners
Also, as I mentioned, they mainly have focused on cloud, mainly "centralized" cloud, when big companies want "decentralized as well as distributed" solutions, and even solutions that "don't touch the data"
I always mention: Autodesk is really good at "marketing" than technical aspects, and one of their marketing strategies is having a lot of "small" partners who develop plug-ins or sale software and advertise Autodesk
Also, many average experts who advertise Autodesk and Autodesk support them too
I've started a page to collect relevant articles relevant to this project, https://wiki.osarch.org/index.php?title=AEC_articles
There are more professional CAD & BIM software products to consider these days than waaayyyy overpriced AUTODESK products. I've never understood why larger practices & some individuals don't explore the market to recognise this fact & thus end up being VANILLA-CAD users & out of pocket. Instead of this tenuous lobbying, just change your CAD HB-PENCIL ! ?
List of alternative CAD/BIM products than Autodesk:-
Cadline Network Ltd – ArchLine-Xp & LT (light) version
Graphisoft - ArchiCAD
Nemetschek - Allplan Architecture
Gehry Technologies - Digital Project Designer
Nemetschek - Vectorworks Architect
Bentley - Architecture
4MSA IDEA - Architectural Design (IntelliCAD)
CADSoft - Envisioneer
DataCAD LLC – Software for AEC Professionals
Softtech – Spirit Pro
Robert McNeel & Associates - Rhino 3D + VisualARQ
AutoDesSys - Form-Z
Edificius
SketchUp Pro
Bricsys – BricsCAD / BricsCAD BIM
FreeCAD Arch
Xeometric -EliteCad Architecture
Chief Architect
CadLogic - Draft it Architectural
NanoSoft - NanoCad Construction
ProgeSoft – ProgeCAD Architecture
Avanquest – TurboCAD Professional
Elecosoft – Arcon Evo
Visual Building Premium
ZWSOFT - ZWCAD Pro
I wish "Gehry Technologies - Digital Project Designer" was open source
However, I found an alternative, but it's too early to implement it
@CJT1963 welcome to the OSArch forums! We're a community working together to build free software for the built environment! Out of the list you've mentioned, FreeCAD is the only free software, so that is our priority. You might be interested in this list: https://wiki.osarch.org/index.php?title=AEC_Free_Software_directory
@Moult just free is not enough, all companies, and many experts investigate software before use it in personal or company project
FreeCAD is a great movement but doesn't have characteristics needed to be used massively
Yes, many will join (or joined) to the movement but will see it as an experimental project to gain experience, than use it in serious jobs
I've seen some academic articles, mainly in PLM area that investigated FreeCAD before and in some areas it was better than even some well-known commercial tools
HOWEVER, I strongly believe what today many, especially big companies are looking for you can't see in FreeCAD and BlenderBIM
You guys think like some Autodeskers who develop Revit, they don't care about today or tomorrow, just develop "dirty" solutions, because they're Autodesk, they have enough users, even if develop a tool that has average features, that just makes some "NOOBS" happy
@Moult said:
@CJT1963 welcome to the OSArch forums! We're a community working together to build free software for the built environment! Out of the list you've mentioned, FreeCAD is the only free software, so that is our priority. You might be interested in this list: https://wiki.osarch.org/index.php?title=AEC_Free_Software_directory
Hi Moult,
Understood, I guess I was just making a point that they seem obsessed (slaves) with Autodesk rather than to seek change with their CAD tools. I also didn't realise this arena was just for open source CAD discussion.
@CJT1963 yes, that is a good point :) The OSArch community is indeed for open-source, hence the name OSArch. You can read the brief intro here:
The Open-Source Architecture Community brings together like-minded users and developers who share a common goal: that the built environment can be designed, constructed, operated, and recycled with free software, increased transparency, and a more ethical approach.
It isn't just CAD, though - it's everything related to AEC. This includes structural simulation, CFD modeling, lighting simulation, energy analysis, concept art, algorithmic building generation, costing and quantity surveying, geolocation and GIS, construction sequencing ... you know the drill :)
@ReD_CoDE said:
I've seen some academic articles, mainly in PLM area that investigated FreeCAD before and in some areas it was better than even some well-known commercial tools
HOWEVER, I strongly believe what today many, especially big companies are looking for you can't see in FreeCAD and BlenderBIM
You guys think like some Autodeskers who develop Revit, they don't care about today or tomorrow, just develop "dirty" solutions, because they're Autodesk, they have enough users, even if develop a tool that has average features, that just makes some "NOOBS" happy
Autodesk's CEO is only looking at improving shares value as fast as possible, whatever consequences, and was succeessfull.
With such short term goals i'm afraid that nothing realy good may happen any time soon on Revit dev side.
Bugs lasting for decade definitely looks like evidence of lack of care of issues customer are facing with on every day usage.
@stephen_l I couldn't agree more Stephen, they've just focused on short-term goals, maybe because they mainly are working on cloud (web-based solutions or something hybrid) and also AI
Maybe they build new product than Revit and Navisworks, so this is why they don't care about these solutions, I don't know, but I think this new boss just knows marketing and short-term plans
What makes me sad, is that BlenderBIM friends look like Autodesk guys, just try to build something new without any plan, I think this has happened to FreeCAD too, they just build a tree that looks like anything than a tree
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