[BlenderBIM & CharonIFC] Construction Project Planning, and Cost Scheduling

W by walpa on 2 Mar 2021 #

@iosvarms

I agree with your statements. I also think that for companies to adopt any solution other than commercial or 'home-made solutions' there must be a productivity gain that is worthwhile and the raw learning process is smooth. I think it is possible for us to do something about it.

I am studying the IFC model and, as I understand it so far, it implements almost all the items you mentioned, only item 7 that I don't know the translation correspondence to the terms we use in Brazil, so I can't say that already I found this at IFC, if you can explain it better, I appreciate it.

But I need to understand better:

1- connection to DB does not seem to be something very simple

2 - the way to create the composite costs does not seem to be very friendly

In the end what will really need work is the development of an interface that allows flexibility and productivity.

@duncam

for what I saw in Qex_Studio looks like C # + Sqlite

Greetings

B by bitacovir on 2 Mar 2021, edited 2 Mar 2021 #

Qex_Studio is a data base of items and resources from construction industry. I'll write to Luciano for a better description of his software.

@Goro

I by iosvarms on 5 Mar 2021, edited 5 Mar 2021 #

@walpa said:

. . .

I am studying the IFC model and, as I understand it so far, it implements almost all the items you mentioned, only item 7 that I don't know the translation correspondence to the terms we use in Brazil, so I can't say that already I found this at IFC, if you can explain it better, I appreciate it.

But I need to understand better:

1- connection to DB does not seem to be something very simple

2 - the way to create the composite costs does not seem to be very friendly

In the end what will really need work is the development of an interface that allows flexibility and productivity.

For item 7 (interim valuation and final accounts), these are post contract documents that help in cost control and ensure that BoQ items as specified are carried out. Also, variations/change orders/instructions that affects the overall cost of the project, are captured adequately in interim valuations. Some people use it as a measure of progress by comparing the total certified payments from the interim valuations and the revised contract sum (although, I am not a fan of that). For the Final Accounts, this serves as a settlement document which shows the the amount to be paid to the contractor or amount to be refunded by the contractor at the completion of the project. This is usually a very huge task which involves reconciling all BoQ items with change orders/variations/instructions and can take weeks sometimes months to do. Automating the process would be very good.

How are you studying IFC? Are your working with EXPRESS, or Coding/programming or looking at bSI schema/documentation (e.g., https://standards.buildingsmart.org/IFC/DEV/IFC4_2/FINAL/HTML/link/annex-e.htm) or you are looking at software implementation such as this one I pulled from bSI (see image below)

link: https://technical.buildingsmart.org/resources/software-implementations/

I am not very proficient at coding/programming but I can read code (R and Python) and I have conceptual knowledge of how things work. Let me know how we can work on this together. Are you in Brazil? I am in Nigeria.

I by iosvarms on 5 Mar 2021 #

Ping !!! @Moult Charonifc could be a life saver for 5D-BlenderBim

@tlang have you tried installing it?

T by tlang on 5 Mar 2021 #

@iosvarms sorry, I haven't tried to install as I don't have any linux running at the moment. I've tried to reach out to the developer just now to let him know we're interested in his work.

I by iosvarms on 5 Mar 2021, edited 5 Mar 2021 #

@tlang are you using Windows? Looks like there is a way to create an executable file from the "Read me" file at https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~davide-vescovini/charonifc/trunk/view/head:/README.md. Instructions extracted below. But it requires some dependencies to run.

PYTHON DEPENDENCIES

The following Python libraries must be installed in order to run and compile or package the software:

Install WxWidget (to be able to use the UI)

pip install wxPython

Install Markdown library (https://python-markdown.github.io/reference/)

pip install markdown

. . .

How-to create a windows executable for this module.

Install PyInstaller from PyPI:

> pip install pyinstaller

Go to program’s directory and run:

> pyinstaller charonifc --add-data=charonifclib\locale;charonifclib\locale --add-data=charonifclib\data;charonifclib\data

to get a single executable file:

      >  pyinstaller charonifc --add-data=charonifclib\locale;charonifclib\locale --add-data=charonifclib\data;charonifclib\data --onefile>

I will try it later.

D by duncan on 5 Mar 2021 #

I've added the tag "costing" to this discussion

W by walpa on 5 Mar 2021 # +1 votes

Hi @iosvarms,

7 - understood

Studying the bSI schema / doc in order to apply 4D / 5D in FreeCAD and BlenderBIM. Currently trying to understand the difference between IfcWorkPlan and IfcWorkSchedule, from the UI point of view. If you want to discuss it we can open another thread.

I'm not a dev, I only know a little bit of python, but I'll try anyway. :)

I'm in Brazil (with COVID out of control and our president increasingly crazy and irresponsible ...)

Greetings

M by Moult on 5 Mar 2021 # +1 votes

@iosvarms can you help reach out to Charonifc and organise a meetup between the three of us (him, you, me) + anybody else wanting to join in, to discuss how integration would work?

I by iosvarms on 8 Mar 2021 # +1 votes

@Moult, I have reached out to Dave. He is willing to have a chat with OSArch. Below is his response.

Hello Idowu,

I'm glad to hear from you that CharonIFC can be of interest to your community, I would be glad to have a chat about the project. Let me know when you would like to have a chat, my favourite timeframe would be in late afternoon or early evening CET.

I had also made a series of videos to demonstrate how the software can be used, unfortunately they are in italian (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChnG6wN-w2Qs7-tnuecf3Lg), but youtube che auto add english subtitles.

Cheers.

Davide vescovini

So I guess the ball is in our court to decide when we can meet with him. Let me know how your schedule fits into his timeframe.

@tlang @duncan I guess you would like to join the chat too.

I by iosvarms on 8 Mar 2021 #

@walpa, sure we can. Feel free to open the thread. bSI schema and docs can become a maze and difficult to read at times. It think the main difference between IfcWorkPlan and IfcWorkSchedule is in their entity definitions as supertype /subtype (jargon used in EXPRESS-G ). Below are the entity definitions on the bSI website.

An IfcWorkPlan represents work plans in a construction or a facilities management project.

An IfcWorkSchedule represents a task schedule of a work plan, which in turn can contain a set of schedules for different purposes.

I believe @Moult and others who are vast can help clear this. But I think IfcWorkSchedule is a subtype to IfcWorkPlan. IfcWorkPlan seems to a supertype entity. However, IfcWorkSchedule can be a supertype entity in some cases, but will always be a subtype to IfcWorkPlan.

W by walpa on 8 Mar 2021, edited 9 Mar 2021 # +4 votes

Hi everyone,

I mapped the IFC classes and relationships for a 4D / 5D deployment.

It is not complete yet, the classes for IfcObjectType and the part of IfcResource are missing (not yet fully understood).

I omitted the superclasses for convenience.

This is just my understanding of the scheme, if I am wrong with something feel free to correct me.

Greetings

Edit 1 - attached svg file for anyone who wants to edit

W by walpa on 8 Mar 2021 #

@iosvarms I understood the concepts, but I can't see what it would look like in a UI.

I posted on the thread about 5D the result of my studies on the bSI scheme so far.

We can talk more about my doubts there.

L by lukas on 9 Mar 2021 #

That looks like a 'graph' ? what file format is it? is it a representation of an ifc file? which tool?

mapped? with charonIFC?

Lukas

W by walpa on 9 Mar 2021 #

@lukas It is just a 'mind map' to facilitate the tracking of the relationships between the IFC bSI classes. I edited the post by attaching the file.

L by lukas on 11 Mar 2021, edited 11 Mar 2021 #

like @Dav_id proposed on https://community.osarch.org/discussion/7/aec-free-software-directory#latest

diagrams.net is something like your tool. Which file format is inside , I do not know. Claims to be open-source. Has svg/pdf export. If Topologic has the 'graph' intelligence, isn't topological something to combine with mindmaps/diagrams ?

D by Dav_id on 11 Mar 2021 # +1 votes

Hello everyone and thank you @Lukas for quoting me ... this allows me to take a look at Charonifc ;)

G by Goro on 16 Mar 2021 #

Hello everyone. As Walpa commented, QexStudio is written in C # and works with a SQlite database.

In QexStudio you can import the automatic measurements generated in Revit, through a Revit addin called Qex.

This is the workflow:

From Revit, launch Qex.
An automatic measurement is created.
A file with the extension * .qex is exported.
That * .qex file is imported into QexStudio
A * .xml file compatible with MS Project is exported from QexStudio. This file contains the Tasks and the costs for each one.
The * .xml file is opened with MS Project
A normal MS Project * .mpp file is saved
The Revit model and the * .mpp file are integrated into Navisworks and the BIM5D simulation is created, from selection rules

QexStudio is not native BIM5D software, but it helps speed up the creation of a BIM5D model.

You can see an example in this video of use:

https://youtu.be/Aj0RtzJ37CE

Greetings to all!!

S by SigmaDimensions on 17 Mar 2021, edited 17 Mar 2021 #

Hey @iosvarms, @walpa, Regarding the Planning aspects mentioned above,

@iosvarms said:

An IfcWorkPlan represents work plans in a construction or a facilities management project.

An IfcWorkSchedule represents a task schedule of a work plan, which in turn can contain a set of schedules for different purposes.

I believe @Moult and others who are vast can help clear this. But I think IfcWorkSchedule is a subtype to IfcWorkPlan. IfcWorkPlan seems to a supertype entity. However, IfcWorkSchedule can be a supertype entity in some cases, but will always be a subtype to IfcWorkPlan.

IfcWorkPlan and IfcWorkschedule are both subclasses of IfcWorkControl.

IfcWorkControl

Either one of these entities can be linked to the project through IfcRelDeclares.

You could have an IfcWorkPlan entity that is linked to various IfcWorkSchedule entities through IfcRelAggregates.

However, this may becoming confusing with the next diagriam, which shows that IfcWorkSchedule can also be instantied in the following way:

If there is no Workplan, a single IfcWorkSchedule could be directly linked to the IfcProject, and I have a feeling it was specified as such to allow flexibility in planning strategies.

I would structure the information within the IFC like this :

1 IfcWorkPlan for the construction project

Then, the WorkPlan entity is linked to as many WorkSchedule as we see fit through IfcRelAggregates . We could for example decompose the WorkPlan into:

1 IfcWorkSchedule named 'Design planning'
1 IfcWorkSchedule named 'Procurement planning'
1 IfcWorkSchedule named 'Construction planning'

I've never been on the side of maintenance, but let's be imaginative and assume that this very same IFC model is passed down through to maintenance: We could create a new entity of IfcWorkSchedule named 'Maintenance planning' that has IfcEvent and IfcTask entities for Routine checks/maintenance on MEP equipement (etc?) : these are linked in sequence to the tasks and events contained within the IfcWorkSchedules named 'Procurement' and ' Construction'.

I'm not 100% certain I am getting this right, but this would be awesome... and it seems like the IFC Schema and the ifcopenshell are ready for it!

W by walpa on 18 Mar 2021 #

@Goro said:

Hello everyone. As Walpa commented, QexStudio is written in C # and works with a SQlite database.

Hi @Goro,

Interested in turning Qex into python?

W by walpa on 18 Mar 2021 #

@SigmaDimensions said:

If there is no Workplan, a single IfcWorkSchedule could be directly linked to the IfcProject, and I have a feeling it was specified as such to allow flexibility in planning strategies.

I understood that too, but at the moment I am not implementing with all that freedom for FreeCAD. Because of the relationships and circular references that are introduced. Maybe in the future ...

I posted a 'map' with my understanding of IFC relationships for this topic in https://community.osarch.org/discussion/160/5d-blenderbim-a-tool-for-quantity-surveyors-or-cost-engineers#latest.

@SigmaDimensions said:

I'm not 100% certain I am getting this right, but this would be awesome... and it seems like the IFC Schema and the ifcopenshell are ready for it!

I agree.

My question at the moment is:

The attribute IfcTaskTime in IfcTask there are 2 sets of attributes with 4 dates => Schedule and Actual

And IfcWorkSchedule has the enumeration attribute PredefinedType with the alternatives: ["ACTUAL", "BASELINE", "PLANNED", "USERDEFINED", "NOTDEFINED"]

In my understanding the workschedule attribute controls the visibility of the task ( but I'm not sure)

Workschedule Planned ==> Task Schedule dates

Workschedule Actual ==> Task Actual dates

But what about the multiple baselines ?

Or if for each option in workschedule a new schedule is created, like this:

WorkPlan

|----WorkSchedule(Planned)

|--------Task1

|--------Task2

|-------- ...

|----WorkSchedule(Actual)

|-------- Task1(copy)

|-------- Task2(copy)

|-------- ...

|----WorkSchedule(Baseline N)

|-------- Task1(copy)

|-------- Task2(copy)

|-------- ...

In the same way as IfcResource is treated.

In this case, why schedule and actual dates?

Not yet how it should be done. :(

G by Goro on 18 Mar 2021 #

@walpa said:

@Goro said:

Hello everyone. As Walpa commented, QexStudio is written in C # and works with a SQlite database.

Hi @Goro,

Interested in turning Qex into python?

@walpa I currently have very little Python skills. Over time I will have to learn more about this language, because it is being very popular, especially in the science sector.

And I have not designed any forms in python yet, I have only written simple scripts for Dynamo BIM.

S by SigmaDimensions on 19 Mar 2021, edited 19 Mar 2021 #

( I don't know where to answer, since there are now 3 threads talking about planning and costing, So I'll continue the thread here)

@walpa said:

In my understanding the workschedule attribute controls the visibility of the task ( but I'm not sure)

Workschedule Planned ==> Task Schedule dates

Workschedule Actual ==> Task Actual dates

It seems this can be done, since the very same IfcTask can be assigned to multiple WorkSchedules, and we could plug in the actual dates and the scheduled dates inside IfcTaskTime. This would save doubling up entities - but in that case shouldn't there be only two types of predefinedtypes allowable for IfcWorkSchedule? and not multiple? One questions begs another question!

My curiosity was itching and I tried to apply what you are proposing with ifcopenshell and after parsing a sample .xml made with ProjectLibre, I notice new issues:

WBS do not export well ProjectLibre.
The concept of WorkSchedules or Workplan in an .xml does not seem to exist,
Every <Task> is nested inside the Project's <Tasks>, and the nesting of further tasks is represented by <OutlineNumber>, and <OutlineLevel>
the MS Project data schema is different than what @Moult used in the BlenderBIM code with a Primavera 6 .xml file

I guess once we important an .XML file, we would need to do our own tweaking for each vendor's schema and make it match the IFC Schema.

W by walpa on 20 Mar 2021 #

@SigmaDimensions Let's focus on 5d-blenderbim-a-tool-for-quantity-surveyors-or-cost-engineers/p2 ?

W by walpa on 20 Mar 2021 #

@SigmaDimensions

Continuing the discussion on 4D / 5D implementation in the IFC WorkPlan / WorkSchedule model

@SigmaDimensions said:

the MS Project data schema is different than what @Moult used in the BlenderBIM code with a Primavera 6 .xml file

I guess once we important an .XML file, we would need to do our own tweaking for each vendor's schema and make it match the IFC Schema.

I agree, one script for each scheme.

@SigmaDimensions said:

( I don't know where to answer, since there are now 3 threads talking about planning and costing, So I'll continue the thread here)

@walpa said:

In my understanding the workschedule attribute controls the visibility of the task ( but I'm not sure)

Workschedule Planned ==> Task Schedule dates

Workschedule Actual ==> Task Actual dates

It seems this can be done, since the very same IfcTask can be assigned to multiple WorkSchedules, and we could plug in the actual dates and the scheduled dates inside IfcTaskTime. This would save doubling up entities - but in that case shouldn't there be only two types of predefinedtypes allowable for IfcWorkSchedule? and not multiple? One questions begs another question!

This is the question ... I don't know how it would work in Blender, but in FreeCAD it seems a little complicated to do a nested task with multiple workschedules (I may be mistaken).