OSArch Community

IFC Layer support

  1. M by Micpec96 on 12 Dec 2023, edited 8 Jan 2024 #

    Are the IFC entity layers supported in BlenderBIM?

    And I don't mean IFC class, type or anything else. I don't mean structural layers either (like wall core or insulation), but the layers found in model hierarchy, like in AutoCAD layers panel or Archicad or SketchUp. If the IFC model has layers defined, you can see them in BIM browsers like BIM Vision.

    I'd simply like to assign my objects with more than just IFC classes. I have some geometries nested in collections and I would love to "translate" these collections to layers. Right now, the moment I assign an IFC class to an object that hasn't had the class assigned yet, it jumps out of its native collection and is moved to My Storey. It would be great if My Storey collection could store sub-collections that would be automatically translated into IFC layers. If not that, I would still appreciate having the possibility to manually assign IFC layers to my entities, cause I don't see such an option.

  2. T by theoryshaw on 13 Dec 2023 # +4 votes

    Never used them, but I think you can assign them here..

  3. M by Micpec96 on 13 Dec 2023 #

    Cool, this is indeed IFC layers, thank you!

    I just can't get used to this quirkiness where hierarchy properties are stored together with material properties. I think the tab icon in the UI should be changed, cause it's misleading to native Blender-experienced users who associate the ball icon with material props only.

  4. M by Micpec96 on 13 Dec 2023 #

    By the way, the presentation layers could be sorted alphabetically.

  5. M by Micpec96 on 13 Dec 2023 #

    Also, the problem is, I can't assign layers until I assign IFC class to my objects. Which makes all this counterproductive, because I need to assign my layers according to my collection hierarchy, which gets shattered the moment I assign IFC classes...

  6. G by Gorgious on 13 Dec 2023, edited 13 Dec 2023 #

    At the moment the collection hierarchy in the outliner is hardcoded by the BlenderBIM addon, what you want to achieve is not possible, it will be wiped and re-created every time you save or load the ifc file.

  7. M by Micpec96 on 13 Dec 2023, edited 13 Dec 2023 #

    Hello, Gorgious, you are helping me on all fields now, haha

    I'll reply to you soon on GitHub about the ezDXF addon :)

    Anyway, the Presentation Layers panel is still buggy. When I click on the diamond to assign layer, it should get white, but it won't do in a bigger project, so I won't have the indicator. Also, a layer can only be assigned to the active object, not to all selected objects. Wish me good luck with my hundreds of objects in the project.

    I ended up physically moving the parts that will have different layers, in order to split them visually for easier selection, and I will assign layers accordingly to the "exploded" model in Archicad after importing IFC, and then "merge" the parts back into the common, original location.

  8. J by JanF on 13 Dec 2023, edited 13 Dec 2023 # +4 votes

    Are you sure you know what you're doing? Representation layers are not a good way of doing, well anything, really.

    Visibility control

    Grouping

    • use ifc groups or aggregation

    2D Styling

    • use styling according to properties

    Custom properties

    • just make custom pset and properties that have a meaning

    Layers come from hand drawings, where you would overlay transparent papers as layers and are only useful in a pseudo 2.5d software like photoshop, where you change the order of the 2d layers and therefore the visibility.

  9. M by Micpec96 on 21 Dec 2023, edited 21 Dec 2023 #

    Yeah, I mean, representation layers are mapped onto IFC layers which are then further read by other software like Archicad and translated onto their native layer system, which is extremely useful, provided that they can be easily assigned in Blender, which is not the case now.

    That's why I'd love to know:

    Can we expect a fix for this, so that a representation layer could be assigned to all selected entities (objects) at once, not just the active one?

    Shall I report an issue on github?

  10. J by JanF on 22 Dec 2023 # +1 votes
  11. J by JanF on 22 Dec 2023, edited 22 Dec 2023 # +1 votes
  12. M by Micpec96 on 7 Jan 2024, edited 7 Jan 2024 #

    @JanF said:

    You can just use the bulk property editor for that

    https://community.osarch.org/discussion/808/add-property-set-property-to-many-objects#Comment_10158

    JanF,

    Off-topic, but why are you saying that Archicad doesn't have a native layer system? It does. Every element of your model has a default layer assigned, and actually, the default Archicad template has (too) many layers already set up.

    As per getting rid of layers in BlenderBIM, I see there is a better classification (tagging, labelling, you name it) system like IFC types, classes, attributes etc., but in order to ensure compatibility with CAD environment (e.g. exporting drawings to AutoCAD or open-source CAD software that doesn't read IFCs), I think we should still keep layers usable. And maybe for the sake of working with Archicad better...

    Thank you for suggesting the bulk property editor, but could you please instruct me exactly how to set presentation layers with it? I see nothing like IfcPresentationLayer in the drop-down list. How am I supposed to do that?

    I gotta admit, the bulk editor is not too intuitive, and instead of referring to another tool to achieve a simple goal (that is assigning a set of selected objects with a layer), it would be quite logical to make it possible from the Presentation Layers "editor". All I'm asking for is:

    respect the whole selection, not just the active object. I imagine this would not take a year of coding.

    I'm curious about Dion's opinion on it, if only he had time to read this.

  13. G by Gorgious on 8 Jan 2024 #

    Have you opened an issue over on ifcopenshell's github ? You seem to have uncovered a few bugs or missing features, it would be nice to be able to track them over there so a developer can tackle them in due time. Cheers

  14. M by Micpec96 on 8 Jan 2024 #

    @Gorgious said:

    Have you opened an issue over on ifcopenshell's github ? You seem to have uncovered a few bugs or missing features, it would be nice to be able to track them over there so a developer can tackle them in due time. Cheers

    I haven't, but I'll try to do this today.

    By the way, do you suggest posting every bug report and feature request on github? Cause I'd have a few more and I can see on this forum discussions are often quite general, broad, multi-topic and overall too complex to track specific bugs / requests.

  15. G by Gorgious on 8 Jan 2024, edited 8 Jan 2024 #

    Yes I would say you are right in your analysis, if you have specific features in mind or if you uncovered bugs, github's issues is the place to go. I can advise you to aim for focused and to-the-point threads, developer time is a very stretched commodity :p Moult and Andrej track every one of them, and who knows you might be tempted like a lot of others to try and submit a pull request :)

  16. J by JanF on 8 Jan 2024 # +1 votes

    @Micpec96 said:

    Off-topic, but why are you saying that Archicad doesn't have a native layer system? It does. Every element of your model has a default layer assigned, and actually, the default Archicad template has (too) many layers already set up.

    Yeah, as I said, the system is template and project specific, there's no single standard. So if you merge two archicad files you're very likely to end up with duplicate layers with slightly different names. Pure chaos.

    As per getting rid of layers in BlenderBIM, I see there is a better classification (tagging, labelling, you name it) system like IFC types, classes, attributes etc., but in order to ensure compatibility with CAD environment (e.g. exporting drawings to AutoCAD or open-source CAD software that doesn't read IFCs), I think we should still keep layers usable. And maybe for the sake of working with Archicad better...

    In my opinion this should be all handled by a translator on export/import. As far as I remember Archicad can do this, you can just decide which classification translates to which layer. For dxf you'd still have to do this on export, just having the property with the layer doesn't mean it will be saved to the layer (and it's not straightforward anyway, in 2d cad you have usually for example separate layers for hatches). Actually, the same for Archicad, you'd still have to set up the translator to use the property, so you might as well set the rule based on ifc properties and not bother doing that manually in blender.

    Thank you for suggesting the bulk property editor, but could you please instruct me exactly how to set presentation layers with it? I see nothing like IfcPresentationLayer in the drop-down list. How am I supposed to do that?

    I gotta admit, the bulk editor is not too intuitive, and instead of referring to another tool to achieve a simple goal (that is assigning a set of selected objects with a layer), it would be quite logical to make it possible from the Presentation Layers "editor". All I'm asking for is:

    respect the whole selection, not just the active object. I imagine this would not take a year of coding.

    I'm not arguing against your suggestion, actually exactly the opposite. It's needed for all properties, to ditch the bulk editor and have it happen automatically, the way normal users expect it. I believe there's also already a bug for that, it's just that nobody has done it yet.

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