I really would like a chapter in our wiki about FLOSS construction systems. A place where we can gather information about FLOSS systems, information and references of groups like we are doing for software.
Some cases to list:
Open Source Ecology https://www.opensourceecology.org/
Open Building Institute https://www.openbuildinginstitute.org/
Wikihouse https://www.opensystemslab.io/
ClipHut https://www.cliphut.org/
Open Source Wood https://opensourcewood.com/
It's a wiki, what are you waiting for ? :D
@Moult said:
It's a wiki, what are you waiting for ? :D
My Mom told me that letting the community know, is good manners and etiquette. :) Also is good for wiki content promotion.
I agree that having a chat is good, @Moult a wiki is a great thing, but it is not self-organizing. A disorganized wiki is a pain in the arse to maintain and close to useless for anyone who doesn't remember where things are. A wiki is like a big warehouse with no shelves and no system. Yes, there's space for a lot of stuff, but no-one can find it.
@bitacovir I've been wanting to do that for ages as well but haven't quite worked out how to do it or what the criteria should be. It's a really interesting topic. Maybe you could start a page with what you have already found including a description of how you define Open Source Building Systems. For example is it enough if the drawings are in the commons? If you want to call them 'open source' then the files themselves have to be available and under a relevant license. So it's not enough that they're modular and community developed. And if the file is freely available but in a closed format ... that's really not good enough either. For cliphut for example I find no indication at all that there is anything open about what they're doing. What they're doing is cool, but I have trouble seeing what it has to do with our project. The opensource wood project seems much more open, but it looks like they're about sharing knowledge - again great. But what does it have to do with our projects of bringing more opensource/libre software to AEC? The First three are very relevant since they bring everything together: the idea, the method, the openness and the software. But since I never found more than those three examples when I went looking (and I looked quite hard) I lost interest. In some ways a list of open source building systems would be more a project for @marcin_ose and OSE to showcase. But OSE projects and Wikihouse are the only projects I know of - oh actually @theoryshaw and OpeningDesign projects would also be in this category if we focus on "openness" of projects rather than them being a "system".
... actually there was an English guy back in the '70s who published some books on owner-builder wood frame building systems. But just now I can't find the book where I read about him. That sort of thing is also relevant to what you're talking about. But it does really feel like a different topic from what we're doing. Personally I think it would be great to find a way to include information on public access building systems.
... just found this interesting article by an old friend I haven't seen for many years comparing different building systems for owner builders: https://www.motherearthnews.com/green-homes/natural-building/house-framing-systems-zm0z16fmzbre
@duncan Walter Segal?
@brunopostle said:
@duncan Walter Segal?
Excactly! So I guess the question is whether it's part of our project to promote this type of "open source" approach to architecture & design. And is it even opensource if you must buy the book to make use of the designs? I'm not sure. It feels like a never ending project with very poorly designed edges. But I feel like it's at least worth a good long page to discuss the topic. If we can find a few other analogue examples it might be a great topic for an article. Do we even extend our topic to include the democratization of design process and community involvement?
I'm very interested to hear other peoples thoughts.
I think open building systems are within scope (everything from 'Get Your House Right' to 'hexayurt'), as long there is somebody who wants to pursue it
@duncan said:
I agree that having a chat is good, @Moult a wiki is a great thing, but it is not self-organizing. A disorganized wiki is a pain in the arse to maintain and close to useless for anyone who doesn't remember where things are. A wiki is like a big warehouse with no shelves and no system. Yes, there's space for a lot of stuff, but no-one can find it.
I think that tide up a wiki is also a part of the collaborative work. Some people create content, other people make order. A good practice is to write in the forum when you are creating content in the wiki.
@bitacovir I've been wanting to do that for ages as well but haven't quite worked out how to do it or what the criteria should be. It's a really interesting topic. Maybe you could start a page with what you have already found including a description of how you define Open Source Building Systems. For example is it enough if the drawings are in the commons? If you want to call them 'open source' then the files themselves have to be available and under a relevant license. So it's not enough that they're modular and community developed. And if the file is freely available but in a closed format ... that's really not good enough either.
I don't feel like a guy who is in charge of creating the definitions. I think on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-design_movement
There is also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_hardware Both have good theoretical base that should be good to apply on construction industry.
For cliphut for example I find no indication at all that there is anything open about what they're doing. What they're doing is cool, but I have trouble seeing what it has to do with our project.
Indeed some of these cases are more for study and inspiration rather than active promotion. Cliphut stated in the PDF presentation the "Open Source" factor in their design. But they have not delivered or shared any design documentation, yet. Even they could be no active anymore. But I was thinking in a wiki with a research approach about cases like this, because they could be references for new ideas.
The opensource wood project seems much more open, but it looks like they're about sharing knowledge - again great. But what does it have to do with our projects of bringing more opensource/libre software to AEC? The First three are very relevant since they bring everything together: the idea, the method, the openness and the software. But since I never found more than those three examples when I went looking (and I looked quite hard) I lost interest. In some ways a list of open source building systems would be more a project for @marcin_ose and OSE to showcase. But OSE projects and Wikihouse are the only projects I know of - oh actually @theoryshaw and OpeningDesign projects would also be in this category if we focus on "openness" of projects rather than them being a "system".
Ok. I had not researched more about other examples. I understand that the open source topic is still "immature" as implementation in the construction area. Also, maybe is good idea to open a wiki page in the OSE rather than in this wiki. That way it could get more attention of "builders users".
I think that tide up a wiki is also a part of the collaborative work. Some people create content, other people make order. A good practice is to write in the forum when you are creating content in the wiki.
sure, but looking around at society it's easier and more fun to create content than it is to create high quality content structured usefully. Isn't that why documentation of opensource / libre software is famously poor?
The reason I often pull the brakes a bit on content and talk about structure is because we want a useful wiki where topics are collected together in useful ways. So I'm always trying to think "if someone is reading this - what else would they want to read?". From there I think about the scope of each page and what it should be linked to, what categories it might belong in and so on. If we're not doing that then people might as well just search the internet themselves. I see the job of the wiki as being curators of our shared knowledge.
Ok. I had not researched more about other examples. I understand that the open source topic is still "immature" as implementation in the construction area.
Well, yes and no. There is a great German magazine called Detail ( https://www.detail-online.com/ ) who specifically share construction details. So it's not really because we don't share knowledge about building processes. Actually it's more the building systems manufacturers that try and protect their systems behind patented designs.
Also, maybe is good idea to open a wiki page in the OSE rather than in this wiki. That way it could get more attention of "builders users".
That might be a very good fit. I think what OSE is doing is much more relevant to the physical environment. Maybe that's a good distinction between OSArch and OSE. We focus on digital tools, OSE focuses on physical results. If @marcin_ose is watching he might like to comment.
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