Converting Sketchup models to IFC

J by JanF on 23 Nov 2024 #

https://osarch.org/2022/10/15/whitepaper-published-on-native-ifc-methodologies/

T by theoryshaw on 23 Nov 2024 # +2 votes

@theoryshaw so, having explored IFC, what do you think are it's merits?

Since i need to move on to billable work now... i'll let AI answer. :)

I agree and resonate with all these....

Interoperability: Just as open internet standards ensure different systems can communicate, open building standards like IFC ensure that various software applications and systems used in the design, construction, and operation of buildings can exchange data seamlessly. This interoperability helps avoid data silos and ensures a smoother workflow across diverse tools used by architects, engineers, contractors, and facility managers.
Innovation: Open building standards, including IFC, foster innovation by providing a common framework for different stakeholders in the built environment. Developers and software vendors can build on these standards to create new technologies, methodologies, and tools without being restricted by proprietary formats or systems, much like how open internet standards support the development of new web applications.
Competition and Choice: IFC and other buildingSMART standards prevent monopolies in the building design and construction industries. Just as the open internet promotes competition between providers, open building standards encourage a competitive marketplace where organizations can select from a variety of software and tools that meet their needs, all while maintaining compatibility with the broader ecosystem.
Security: Open building standards benefit from transparency, with the standards themselves and their implementations being open to public scrutiny. This ensures that vulnerabilities in data exchange, model integrity, and system interfaces are identified and addressed by a broad community of experts, improving the overall security of digital systems in the built environment.
Cost Reduction: Much like open internet standards reduce licensing fees for proprietary systems, open building standards like IFC reduce the need for expensive, proprietary solutions. Organizations can adopt cost-effective open-source or low-cost software that supports IFC, which lowers entry barriers for smaller firms and promotes more affordable collaboration across teams.
Global Accessibility: Just as the internet connects people across the globe, open building standards like IFC help create a globally connected construction industry. These standards enable data exchange across different regions, allowing international teams to collaborate on projects and ensuring that building information is accessible regardless of location, language, or the specific software tools being used.
Long-Term Stability: Open standards like IFC are designed through broad industry consensus, ensuring long-term stability and continuity. Unlike proprietary formats that may be phased out or altered by a single vendor, open building standards evolve based on community needs and input, providing long-term value and ensuring that buildings' digital models remain usable and accessible far into the future.
Collaboration: The creation of open building standards such as IFC is a collaborative effort involving diverse stakeholders from across the construction industry. This spirit of cooperation and shared knowledge leads to better standards and practices, improving outcomes for everyone involved in a building project—from designers to contractors to building owners.
Sustainability: Open building standards promote sustainability by allowing the reuse of data, models, and designs across different phases of a building's lifecycle. As the standards are adaptable and evolving, they reduce waste by facilitating efficient project workflows and supporting the integration of sustainable practices in building design and construction, much like how open internet standards promote efficient use of resources across the web.

J by JQL on 23 Nov 2024 #

My question was misplaced and resulted in an answer I wasn't expecting.

I also agree IFC is the way. Proprietary formats just can't deal with each other and in such a complex output as BIM, there must be a common language.

I wasn't thinking about why IFC instead of proprietary, but rather this particular BIM software, like FreeCAD or Bonsai, that edit IFC natively, helped you design better and eventually more swiftly, as well as how integrating data in the model has helped you create better projects.

At this point I have the advantage of working with 3D without worrying much about data integration.

That is very good for my design processe, but I'm stuck with a dumb 3D.

So how good is the design workflow with Bonsai or FreeCAD and does it pay off, design wise or does it only justify because of the extra data integration and management that IFC allows?

Do you still design with other software or methods and then move on to assemble the project in Bonsai or FreeCAD and do you deal exclusively with their 3D abilities and quality of output and you neglect data at this time?

T by theoryshaw on 23 Nov 2024 # +4 votes

Do you still design with other software or methods and then move on to assemble the project in Bonsai or FreeCAD and do you deal exclusively with their 3D abilities and quality of output and you neglect data at this time?

I do everything in Bonsai now--from schematic thru construction. I haven't used Revit in about 6 months.

J by JanF on 23 Nov 2024 # +4 votes

I'll try to answer from one more point of view:

Bonsai is way more similar to Revit and Archicad than it is to SketchUp or Blender. The "BIM for planning" use case is so deeply integrated in Revit or Bonsai you have to use special workflows to create dumb 3d as you do in SketchUp.

For concept design, use SketchUp or Blender, SketchUp being more user friendly and Blender more capable.

For BIM switch to Revit, Archicad or Bonsai, Archicad being the most user friendly and Bonsai the most open.

The main selling point for Bonsai users is the data ownership and freedom, that's why you get answers like these above.

J by JQL on 24 Nov 2024 #

@theoryshaw said:

I do everything in Bonsai now--from schematic thru construction. I haven't used Revit in about 6 months.

I understand this and you get me total respect. The drawings you are achieving are great and I could see myself moving from Sketchup to Blender if I could easily produce those. I'm addicted to a lot of Sketchup workflows though, so I don't see that being easy.

@JanF said:

I'll try to answer from one more point of view:

Bonsai is way more similar to Revit and Archicad than it is to SketchUp or Blender. The "BIM for planning" use case is so deeply integrated in Revit or Bonsai you have to use special workflows to create dumb 3d as you do in SketchUp.

For concept design, use SketchUp or Blender, SketchUp being more user friendly and Blender more capable.

For BIM switch to Revit, Archicad or Bonsai, Archicad being the most user friendly and Bonsai the most open.

The main selling point for Bonsai users is the data ownership and freedom, that's why you get answers like these above.

@JanF Thanks for such a clear point of view!

Bonsai is way more similar to Revit and Archicad than it is to SketchUp or Blender. The "BIM for planning" use case is so deeply integrated in Revit or Bonsai you have to use special workflows to create dumb 3d as you do in SketchUp.

My objective isn't to create dumb 3D models though. I just can't avoid that in Sketchup, and even if I'm adapting my workflow to be able to produce IFC models from Sketchup, with the help of the tools some developers and even Trimble are developing, I'm thinking that I might need to transition to real BIM.

For concept design, use SketchUp or Blender, SketchUp being more user friendly and Blender more capable.

Sketchup's main advantage is that anything I model in 3D or draw in 2D is easily presentable material using Layout or rendering engines, or simply easy to make it appealing ou of the box. For concept stages it's great and I'm very used to it by now. It's not the modelling workflow that scares me in Blender. I actually understand that Blender has much more potential. The thing I'm afraid of on the transition to Blender is that although it will give me a lot of very cool new stuff, it might make me loose that Layout and 2D part of the equation that is very important for the workflow.

For BIM switch to Revit, Archicad or Bonsai, Archicad being the most user friendly and Bonsai the most open.

I'm in the process of thinking if I should keep producing permits and final construction documentation in Sketchup, or if I should move on to another package for that. BIM will be mandatory by 2030 in UE and I think the format will be IFC, unless Autodesk is able to impose itself on the market somehow. I hope not.

The main selling point for Bonsai users is the data ownership and freedom, that's why you get answers like these above.

I'm considering betting in either Bonsai or FreeCAD for my transition exactly for the reasons you mention. The git coordination of versions is an incredible feature.

You are helping me a lot, so these answers mean very much for me.

The definite question for me is if I should move to BIM or if I should stick with SU as soon as possible or in a longer term.

If I'm not pushing my luck, I have only a few more doubts that you might settle.

How easy is it, either in FreeCAD or Bonsai, to:

Create page layouts for plans and sections?
Tag meaningful objects on them, like windows, doors, closets, names for spaces?
Create dimensions and symbols for slopes, foor heights, areas?
Reference plans and sections to each other in different sheets?
Create details in plan and section sheets and reference to detail sheets?
Create graphical schedules for doors, windows, closets, and other details?
Create BOM, quanty take offs, cost estimations?
Update all this data when changes in the building happen?

Are there tutorials that I might follow that tell us how to do that, or at least videos that show that kind of work being done?

Thank you very much for all your patience so far and especially thanks for all the work being carried on by this community.

S by steverugi on 24 Nov 2024 # +1 votes

@JQL

I can only answer to the last two questions

Create BOM, quantity take offs, cost estimations?

Update all this data when changes in the building happen?

Compared to old school quantity take-off from pdf or 2D dwg Bonsai allows you to model the project and extract quantities, it takes less time.

As a bonus at the end you have your data AND a shareable model with some BIM/IFC schema etc. knowledge along the way

Model update? press Shift-Q again ;)

Just don't expect that to happen in a day, a bumpy but doable journey full of surprises!

S by sjb007 on 24 Nov 2024 # +3 votes

@JQL said:

How easy is it, either in FreeCAD or Bonsai, to:

"Easy" is quite a subjective word, but I'll try...

I'm assuming you've already set up your titleblock template, and rendering settings.

Create page layouts for plans and sections?

Click a few buttons to select a plan/elevation/section/perspective view to define a Drawing. Tweak the framing and options till happy. Maybe 5 minutes.

"Create" Drawing to check it. One click. Seconds.

Add a new Sheet (page). One click. Set the title and ID. Seconds.

Add the drawing to the Sheet. Select Drawing and Sheet, and click a button. Seconds. Repeat as necessary.

Adjust layout. Click a button, launching Inkscape (or similar SVG editor, your choice). Now arrange the temporary drawing images to set the layout, and save. A few minutes, maybe longer if you want to be artsy.

"Create" sheet to check it. One click. Seconds.

(Worth noting that there are options to bulk generate drawings and sheets, so you can generate many Drawings or Sheets with a couple of clicks.)

Tag meaningful objects on them, like windows, doors, closets, names for spaces?

Easy (if I understand you mean these labels like "D01" on drawings. Part of the annotation tool. A few clicks, probably less than a minute each.

Create dimensions and symbols for slopes, foor heights, areas?

Easy. Part of the annotation tool. A few clicks, probably less than a minute each.

Reference plans and sections to each other in different sheets?

Automatic. When you create a section for example, the annotation is added to the other drawings for you, and will automatically have the page and drawing reference filled into the end bubbles.

Those are the ones I feel able to answer.

Are there tutorials that I might follow that tell us how to do that, or at least videos that show that kind of work being done?

I believe I already provided links to YouTube IfcArchitect. All these things are done in those tutorials.

J by JQL on 25 Nov 2024 #

Thanks for still bearing with me guys! I hope others are interested in this too.

@sjb007 said:

Adjust layout. Click a button, launching Inkscape (or similar SVG editor, your choice). Now arrange the temporary drawing images to set the layout, and save. A few minutes, maybe longer if you want to be artsy.

So, the output is SVG and if the model changes these SVG drawings are going to change with it?

If we link the SVG to some software that is able to load them as references, are we going to be able to keep refreshing/reloading them?

"Create" sheet to check it. One click. Seconds.

(Worth noting that there are options to bulk generate drawings and sheets, so you can generate many Drawings or Sheets with a couple of clicks.)

Nice! Redoing the model will allow us to refresh the svg files for each drawing? Or will it create new files?

Easy (if I understand you mean these labels like "D01" on drawings. Part of the annotation tool. A few clicks, probably less than a minute each.

Create dimensions and symbols for slopes, foor heights, areas?

Easy. Part of the annotation tool. A few clicks, probably less than a minute each.

A minute each type, like a minute to place all dimensions?

Reference plans and sections to each other in different sheets?

Automatic. When you create a section for example, the annotation is added to the other drawings for you, and will automatically have the page and drawing reference filled into the end bubbles.

Nice!

Those are the ones I feel able to answer.

Are there tutorials that I might follow that tell us how to do that, or at least videos that show that kind of work being done?

I believe I already provided links to YouTube IfcArchitect. All these things are done in those tutorials.

Thanks! I missed those...

@steverugi said:

Compared to old school quantity take-off from pdf or 2D dwg Bonsai allows you to model the project and extract quantities, it takes less time.

As a bonus at the end you have your data AND a shareable model with some BIM/IFC schema etc. knowledge along the way

Model update? press Shift-Q again ;)

Just don't expect that to happen in a day, a bumpy but doable journey full of surprises!

I know the journey will be long. I'm just trying to feel what to expect in the end.

I'm starting to get really convinced this shoud be the way forward!

Thanks!

S by sjb007 on 25 Nov 2024 # +2 votes

@JQL said:

Thanks for still bearing with me guys! I hope others are interested in this too.

@sjb007 said:

Adjust layout. Click a button, launching Inkscape (or similar SVG editor, your choice). Now arrange the temporary drawing images to set the layout, and save. A few minutes, maybe longer if you want to be artsy.

So, the output is SVG and if the model changes these SVG drawings are going to change with it?

If we link the SVG to some software that is able to load them as references, are we going to be able to keep refreshing/reloading them?

You make changes to the model. Decide you want to see the updated sheets, so you click a couple of times, and your SVG files in the drawings and sheets subfolders are overwritten with the new svg. How your other app watches and refreshes and external references is up to it. As an IT guy, I can think of a few ways this might break, but I would expect them to be able to auto-detect an updated file and either refresh automatically, or ask if you want to pull the updates.

"Create" sheet to check it. One click. Seconds.

(Worth noting that there are options to bulk generate drawings and sheets, so you can generate many Drawings or Sheets with a couple of clicks.)

Nice! Redoing the model will allow us to refresh the svg files for each drawing? Or will it create new files?

Not 100% sure of the exact mechanism, but technically it is probably a new file in the same folder, with the same filename. (Deep in the weeds here... most apps "open" a file for writing ("w" mode), which is a "new" file. In rare cases they open for appending ("a" mode) then truncate the file to byte 0, and write the new data.)

Easy (if I understand you mean these labels like "D01" on drawings. Part of the annotation tool. A few clicks, probably less than a minute each.

Create dimensions and symbols for slopes, foor heights, areas?

Easy. Part of the annotation tool. A few clicks, probably less than a minute each.

A minute each type, like a minute to place all dimensions?

LOL! No, it's not psychic. Bit more complicated than that. Let me try again. Less than a minute for each annotation, with one caveat. A "dimension" annotation can be a multiple dimensions. You just extrude one of the points out, and you get multiple segments, each of which is a length dimension. So for a typical row of dimensions along one wall, you could do all of them in minute or so, as you just hit E, then X or Y to constrain the direction, and move the mouse and click to place each new dimension stop point. This took like 30 secs:

With snapping you can place them easy and quickly. I haven't used anything else for comparison, but it seems fast and easy to me.

There may be other streamlined annotation workflows that I simply haven't run into yet. Remember, this is written by architects, for architects. If anyone is going to be motivated to make the software fast and easy, it's going to be these guys.

J by JQL on 25 Nov 2024 #

Awesome @sjb007 , those doubts are clear! Thanks once again!