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by LaurensJN on 21 Oct 2020, edited 22 Sep 2024
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Hello all!
Today - I'm a very new user - I tried the BlenderBIM add-on for Blender. It's awesome! I'm using multiple BIM programs to explore their integration with IFC.
Right now I am exploring the possibilities of BlenderBIM. Seeing what is already implemented and what is not. One thing I was wondering if it exists, is the possibility to have a wall structure of multiple layers (say - 100mm concrete; 100mm insulation and 150mm concrete again). I made a test model in Revit, exported it to IFC and compared this to the same model imported to Blender and then exported to IFC again. When I compare both IFC files in Solibri, it seems that the material 'list' of walls is missing in the blender IFC model (see images).
I was trying to find it in the documentation, but I am not 100% sure where to look. You all would be of great help!
Best,
Laurens
<img src="https://community.osarch.org/uploads/editor/h3/g2y504pksdz5.png" alt="Revit" width="30%"> <img src="https://community.osarch.org/uploads/editor/pm/kk24vdm65fcy.png" alt="Blender" width="30%"/>
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by Cyril on 21 Oct 2020, edited 21 Oct 2020
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+3 votes
There is multiple ways to store materials in IFC. See wiki : IFC materials
eg. here is a 3 layer wall of plaster/insulation/concrete (also initially exported from Revit initially) :
Issue is that they currently do not have consequence on geometry representation neither in 3D view or in plan view.
IfcMaterialList is the worst way to store material as there is no relation with geometry. It has been deprecated in IFC4.
IfcConstituent is hard to deserialise as you get only fraction representing each material.
Currently the easiest to deserialise is IfcMaterialLayer(Set) and elements composed of multiple elements.
Material info are also supposed to be stored but Revit currently don't. See issue #153. From ArchiCAD you currently get something like this :
Still a lot of work to do in this area.
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NB : colors you see in last example from ArchiCAD is related to styles. Not materials unfortunately…
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Warning : I might be wrong or not precise enough in my answer on some point. I hope Dion or anyone which have another part of knowledge on this topic will correct me where necessary.
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by Moult on 21 Oct 2020
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+3 votes
Materials in IFC need some love. Everybody agrees it has issues, but solutions haven't been made yet. I'm working through a proposal, but it'll take time for this to filter down to users.
Materials aside, the implementation for layers "works" in that it is technically possible in the BlenderBIM Add-on. However, I think it is highly immature and needs an overhaul in the material system. Currently the method to determine whether you're assigning a layerset vs a single material is done in the object properties tab. It is on the to-do list to spend a release with a focus on materials.
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by LaurensJN on 22 Oct 2020
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Thanks both of you for the answers! I did some additional research and found that there are many others with the same problems.. I guess what this person https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/spouwmuren-bim-teun-de-vries/ has some explanation on how to go around as well. It is in Dutch but google translate works fine :) Making building element parts might be the way to go - for now. Of course it has its own advantages and disadvantages.
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by Darth_Blender on 27 Oct 2020, edited 27 Oct 2020
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Could this issue be resolved with Sverchok?
Would there be a way to do something similar to the blenderbim dumbwall but with layers?
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by Moult on 4 Nov 2020
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+10 votes
A heads up that as of this commit (https://github.com/IfcOpenShell/IfcOpenShell/commit/30afd6c95b214956e687a4872fe0d5c5e821b181) some progress is being made to have much better material support:
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by JanF on 4 Nov 2020
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Wow. Do you plan on implementing auto booleans/intersections based on material properties as Archicad does? I didn't even dream this to be possible.
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by stephen_l on 4 Nov 2020
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BlenderBIM has nothing to do with geometry, it's all about ifc classification. You are free to use any geometry and modifiers set to do so.
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by JanF on 4 Nov 2020
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+1 votes
I don't entirely agree with you, it already provides much wider spectrum of functions than just ifc classification, one of them being also the creation of basic geometry (dumbwall etc.). Of course the general idea that a user can model the geometry in any way he likes is right, however I also believe that we should provide a "standard" way of doing things, so that especially new users and generally people not so interested in trying a million different ways to do the same thing can start using the tool quickly.
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by JanF on 4 Nov 2020
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+3 votes
@Darth_Blender said:
Could this issue be resolved with Sverchok?
Would there be a way to do something similar to the blenderbim dumbwall but with layers?
As others mentioned, there are more ways to approach this, some using geometry (i.e. modelling the layers separately) others using for example properties - you can read about all that in the linkedin post above.
Currently it is already possible to take the modelling way and yes you could use SV for that. There are however issues
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modelling the complexer intersections (three walls in one corner for example) with sverchok will get complex rather quickly
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you will either have to do the whole model in sverchok, or bake your walls in order to, for example, add windows
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baking parametric objects out of SV is not currently supported very well, you usually export "dumb" meshes, which will be hard to work with later
I'm trying different approaches as well, but also kind of waiting what becomes of the new material feature and how the "native ifc" support develops.
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by theoryshaw on 4 Nov 2020
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@JanF said:
Wow. Do you plan on implementing auto booleans/intersections based on material properties as Archicad does? I didn't even dream this to be possible.
Yes, this would be awesome, however, just simply reflecting the layers visually in section/plan would be a huge improvement, short of booleans/intersections.
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by theoryshaw on 4 Nov 2020, edited 4 Nov 2020
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+1 votes
It is exciting to see the 'Priority' attribute there!
Can the current IFC schema codify this 'priority' attribute?
If not, it would be nice to work with Freecad to develop a standard along these lines.
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by Moult on 4 Nov 2020
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+2 votes
To provide proper support for material colouring relies on support of IfcMaterialLayerSetUsage - currently the "usage" isn't supported. It's quite a bit more work. IfcConvert also has features to split walls up into coloured layers.
I think with some clever shader tricks there is a way to build this to support coloured layers, regardless of whatever geometry techniques you use to model the wall.
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by Moult on 6 Nov 2020
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+8 votes
A material constituents UI is now done, and now export support is also done.
Still to-do: import support, profile sets, sync material assignments when creating objects, and making the styled items compatible with the new system.
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by Meetlat on 6 Nov 2020
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+4 votes
Great Job! Can't wait to try the completed function. If the material/wall function is complete I'm planning to make a library of wall types focused on the Dutch/Belgium market.
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by Moult on 10 Feb 2022
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+4 votes
@Meetlat indeed the function is completed :) Now we need libraries!
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by duncan on 12 Feb 2022
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+1 votes
Have you seen this?
https://twitter.com/johannes_wilde/status/1490710268556501002
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by Coen on 13 Feb 2022
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@duncan
Have you seen this?
That's really cool, wondering how that tool will work with resizing and modifyng Booleans/IfcOpeningElements. It would be so amazing if the brickwork patterns/bond could be recalculated from modifying an IfcOpeningElement.
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by csimeon on 24 Apr 2023, edited 24 Apr 2023
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@Moult said:
@Meetlat indeed the function is completed :) Now we need libraries!
@Moult :
How is it completed? I have made an ifcWallType that has a material layer set. How do I get the visual representation of layers?
Can I make some layered wall types then? I would gladly share as libraries.
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by theoryshaw on 24 Apr 2023
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Unfortunately you cannot visualize layers yet
https://github.com/IfcOpenShell/IfcOpenShell/issues/1227
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by Coen on 24 Apr 2023
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@theoryshaw said:
Unfortunately you cannot visualize layers yet
https://github.com/IfcOpenShell/IfcOpenShell/issues/1227
I don't get why so many IFC viewers are not capable of doing this... Is it because there's no relationship being defined between the different layers? Intuivelity it should be something very straighforward I think? ?
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by theoryshaw on 24 Apr 2023, edited 24 Apr 2023
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Can I make some layered wall types then?
... you can still define them however.
