@Ace if it were just called "BIM", or just "IFC", what would the website be? We (most likely) cannot use blenderbim.org anymore.
@Ace if it were just called "BIM", or just "IFC", what would the website be? We (most likely) cannot use blenderbim.org anymore.
That's a great point @Moult ahahha,
Perhaps the website can be: IfcOpenSuite.org and the Addon can be the 'BIM addon for Blender' or the 'IFC addon for Blender'?
Where the 'BIM addon for Blender' is part of the IfcOpenSuite
The one thing with the extensions is that people will type: building/ architecture / engineering / BIM into the search bar and we can take them to the website from there.
Freecad for instance is also incorporating IfcOpenshell (@Yorik you are amazing) but the branding for that part of Freecad is it's own thing:
https://wiki.freecad.org/BIM_Workbench
https://wiki.freecad.org/Arch_IFC
I'm actually not certain which one is the latest hahah, but the strategy for IfcOpenshell is that any program could become a wrapper to use it eventually (as far as I remember)
I don't think the website and addon need the same name, discoverability is more important.
This might be divisive but it's only my opinion haha
If only one name works I like IfcOpenSuite across the board it's great and then we make a clean transition from Blenderbim
I've come full circle and would back IfcOpenForge (1) over IfcOpenSuite (2) - purely because Forge has a bit of an 'app' wrapper feel.
That's a bummer, but I kind of understand the Blender position, they are literally hacked everywhere by commercial products... At FreeCAD we also feel we need somehow to protect our baby... In any case I'd advocate for some sort of a "soft change", some way to migrate from BlenderBIM to the new name, and I'd also keep BIM in the name, because IFC is the way we are doing BIM, but we're still doing BIM, and we need to rescue and free the word BIM from big vendors. Otherwise it's too easy for them to say: ah but that is not BIM, only we are true BIM...
@Moult said:
@Ace if it were just called "BIM", or just "IFC", what would the website be? We (most likely) cannot use blenderbim.org anymore.
@Moult it could be http://www.bimaddon.org
My two cents: BIM Add-On or BBIM Add-On keep a sort of continuity with the existing name (obviously...)
I like IfcOpenStudio or IfcOpenSuite, they are both nice. I think these names are more suitable for a stand alone software rather then a Blender add-on, these names are very nice and create a sort of break with the past (so it is actually good if it is intended).
It could be also IfcOpenUI (User Interface), following the idea that it is a graphical interface for IfcOpenShell library, but this is more for nerd or advanced users and it's not very good for marketing i guess ...
100% agree with @yorik above.
BlenderBIM is the perfect branding, just doing BIM in Blender. Simple, powerful, and already stablished for several years. Changing it to IfcOpenSuite or whatever else, without going along with new features, having to state that it comes from a Blender new policy, makes us look less legit and is a huge blunder imho.
What am I saying then? to happily ignore the Blender Foundation new policy? Of course not, but I believe they're now doing this at scale for the approval of new extensions, to then deal on a case per case basis for well-established addons, specially when it comes to domains or other branding outside of the official extension name. I might be wrong here, but that's what I read between the lines from the communications shared by Dion.
So, the fact that in the last exchange, Dion asks if it's cool to keep the blenderbim.org domain, and Francesco (Blender Foundation) hasn't answered... tells me they don't want to enforce a change of the domain. I believe that we should try to suggest them to change the extension name to BIM (so the BlenderBIM addon becomes the BIM extension, which can easily be called the Blender BIM extension), so effectively keeping the colloquial name BlenderBIM and the domain.
This is exactly what BlenderDMX is doing, and it seems there is no issue there. We're not a random addon benefitting from the Blender trademark, we're enabling Blender with full BIM capabilities, making it able to compete with Revit (which if I'm not mistaken costs 3000$ / year)... we add value to Blender itself. Why can BlenderDMX just be the DMX extension and keep the branding, and we're rushing to choose a new name? Food for thought.
I also shared my views on the GitHub issue.
+1 for IfcOpenSuite
However, I found that there is an IFC Suite
If we can't use IfcOpenSuite, I am also happy with format like BIM OpenSuite
From the correspondence from Ton:
For as long your intiative is clearly about the add-on (not a business), and it's offered free/gratis, made by a community, you won't hear me complain soon.
I think we should avoid words that make it sound like it’s more than an addon or like it’s a company that offers a service.
To me “Suite” doesn’t sound like an addon it sounds like a complete software package, and “Studio” or “Workspace” sound like there is a company involved that could offer a service.
Interested to hear how pro suite/studio/workspace supporters think of this?
I was thinking here, how a new name (rebranding?) fits with the plans for BlenderBim in the long term. I've been using and teaching BIM with BB without any issue with this name, but in my humble opinion, most of the open-source software that remain a niche product don't even tried a "market oriented" name. I mean, there's no problem with a niche product for FOSS community, we know there are several cases like this, but you know they are FOSS before reading about them, you just need to look at their names. On the other hand, the ones which went mainstream; Blender, Inkscape, Krita, Linux, Grafana, TerraForm. I'm sure it was not their names what made all of them be mass adopted, but I'm thinking here, how a name such as IfcOpenStudio (one of the best takes here IMO) or IfcLibreStudio (my own take 😬) could help more, or less, if the team has mass adoption in the horizon.
IfcOpenSpace
IfcSpace
@tim said:
From the correspondence from Ton...
That correspondence was back when it was just called "BlenderBIM", and so since then I have always called it the BlenderBIM Add-on. If a name without the word "Blender" was picked, that comment doesn't apply.
@cvillagrasa said:
So, the fact that in the last exchange, Dion asks if it's cool to keep the blenderbim.org domain, and Francesco (Blender Foundation) hasn't answered...
If I still don't get a response tomorrow I'll send a follow-up email given the popularity of this potential option.
My interpretation is that although the Blender Foundation may be happy to turn a blind eye to us, it won't be their preference. For example, BlenderMarket, highly established, has recently renamed to Superhive. I highly recommend everybody to read that blog post. I have a huge amount of respect for the Blender Foundation, and as such their branding goals is one of the ways to demonstrate that respect. My default position was "how do we change as little as possible", but seeing the energy in this thread reminds me that the world isn't crashing down :)
@Marcus said:
I was thinking here, how a new name (rebranding?) fits with the plans for BlenderBim in the long term.
This is an interesting one! I have noticed time and time again that as we grow, we outgrow existing solutions and slowly swap out with our own tailored tech. Here are some examples, of which the examples are accelerating:
Switching from a .blend import/export, to a native .ifc (no more .blend reliance)
Switching from a pure Blender add-on, to a Util+API + core/tool/UI breakdown (no Blender reliance, increased code sharing in FreeCAD, and those many online tools that use IfcOpenShell under the hood)
OpenCASCADE to kernel agnostic (now CGAL + OCC + potentially more)
Blender modifiers for dumb wall, slab, stairs, to our own IFC standard case implementation
Blender UI to seriously, heavily overwriting most tabs, hijacking undo/redo, Tab hotkey, File menu, materials, outliner (!) and more
fcl, to hppfcl, to our own many-many clasher based on OCC in IfcClash
Blender render to OCC HLRAlgo, and now there are talks about outgrowing that (work in progress)
Built in cursor snapping to our own snap (work in progress)
New web UI, where Blender UI falls short (work in progress)
Especially the last one - there are things that the Blender UI is just not so great at, and probably never will be great at. Things like gantt charts, textarea-heavy UIs, spreadsheets, drawing management and page layouting, and collaboration / git interfaces. Even the "simple IFC viewer", many times requested - is actually quite a lot of work to strip down and override! Yet we all recognise that these are glaring needs in the community - but very different to Blender's core goals.
What I'm hinting at here is that although we currently very much are a Blender, BIM, Add-on, in the future, there is a chance that it ends up being more than that. Why not have a dedicated spreadsheet UI (or extending LibreOffice/KOffice libs)? Why not have a dedicated gantt UI (or extending LibreGantt)? Why not build a layouting tool (or extending Inkscape)? And why not build it in a way that all of these can talk to one another and / or share a core. It will soon be possible (from @Ziad 's GSoC project) to just launch a browser and work with an IFC schedule, then after that fire up Blender and connect to the same schedule. See the intro paragraphs of the roadmap.
And the more I think about it, there's a bit more to this as suggested by Francesco's emails, especially this line here:
Instead, using your own name or brand is always preferred and will work in the long run much better for yourself as well.
Back to name suggestions...
@yorik said:
I'd also keep BIM in the name...
Actually I think it's not such a great idea. BIM is now in favour, but at the same time CAD was in favour in the past. We're still doing CAD, but we're also doing more than CAD. In the future, we'll still be doing BIM, but we could be doing more than BIM. The "Twin" (i.e. live sensor feedback, as-built verified, multimodal blah blah blah) buzzword is growing, and who knows in the future?
Maybe it's because my wife likes it, but the name "IfcLab" is starting to grow on me. Everything in the IfcOpenShell umbrella has the "Ifc" prefix only, no "Open" in there. The reason I liked "Open" in IfcOpenStudio or IfcOpenSuite was because it shared the same acronym IOS and could be seen as the duality of dev<->user as a FOSS strength. But it is a mouthful and suite is a tricky speller [ "hey, check out ifcopensuite.org, that's s-u-i-t-e" ] :) IfcLab is short, unique (no known association at least to me to other players, not like studio/openstudio forge/adsk forge suite/creative suite), easy to spell... :)
IfcOpenStudio & IfcOpenShell - awesome duo. I'm for it.
I like the idea that the name should be aligned with the projects' aspiration, without worrying about it being an explanation of what the software does. Maybe it should just sound cool and abstractly represent an idea. I liked the story of Blender Market, which is a self-explanatory name, becoming a Superhive, that you have to read the post to understand why they chose that. I don't have another suggestion yet, but maybe it's worth thinking about names without BIM or IFC. That said, IfcLab seems cool.
If we are going Abstract... Then I say we should go with "Bunny Rabbit" it has a story, it is the Mascot. It's cute... We can optimize the website with all the SEO stuff so it can still be found...
Imagine a conversation
"What do you use for BIM"
"I use Bunny Rabbit"
"Bunny Rabbit, what's that?"
If not anything it's a conversation starter, we have a slogan "hopping to new heights" lol
It could just be Rabbit but as Dion said might be too close to Revit
My two cents on the topic, I trust the members of this forum to make a good decision.
Ps.: turns out Bunny is a baby Rabbit... Who knew, not me ---- scratch that, turns out I was wrong lol
A baby Rabbit is technically called a Kitten I believe :)
I think the name IfcOpenSuite (based on IfcOpenShell) is very appropriate. In previous communication, the words BlenderBIM and IfcOpenShell have been used together so often that the relationship between the two words is already established. The word melody would therefore be familiar. In my opinion, this helps to make the shift less harsh. Even the abbreviation IfcOS would continue to work.
I liked IfcLab and IfcOpenStudio, but thinking long term : people who know what an IFC is already know enough to recognize the native IFC value of BlenderBIM. I know a lot of architects who don't see what an IFC is. The same goes for the link with IfcOpenShell.
I think Speckle's communication is excellent: a random word, a cube and a color. The same goes for Blender or Ladybug.
Bunny or something else in B would make it possible to keep the logo, which is excellent, and I also like the yellow-green color.
@Moult said:
all of my face lit up like a Christmas tree when reading this :D
Why not have a dedicated spreadsheet UI (or extending LibreOffice/KOffice libs)? Why not have a dedicated gantt UI (or extending LibreGantt)? Why not build a layouting tool (or extending Inkscape)? And why not build it in a way that all of these can talk to one another and / or share a core. It will soon be possible (from @Ziad 's GSoC project) to just launch a browser and work with an IFC schedule, then after that fire up Blender and connect to the same schedule. See the intro paragraphs of the roadmap.
IfcDelight, IfcBoom
IfcTerra?
has anyone suggested ccBIM creative commons BIM, its easy to say and short
I think the point's raised by others previously are valid regarding prefix-ing IFC and Open into the name.
I do like the idea, if we're moving away from Blender BIM (I totally get both Dion representing Blenders request and cvillagrasa representing the current brand recognition) that we go for something totally bespoke so that it's as catchy to Market (which Blender/Inkscape/Speckle/Revit/Forma/Github are good at). IfcOpenSuite/Studio/Forge/Lab all are quite a mouthful potentially and adopting a single 'word' may potentially be the way to go forward like 'Brindle' (Connection to rabbit fur colour as an example).
BeBIM ?
Login or Register to reply.